tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post111164000709432097..comments2024-03-22T03:10:08.766-05:00Comments on The Good Raised Up: FAQs about the worship groupUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-2336684206430941512008-03-28T17:41:00.000-05:002008-03-28T17:41:00.000-05:00I'm interested in the Conservative-leaning Liberal...I'm interested in the Conservative-leaning Liberal thingamajig. And to me, being a Quaker-Quaker doesn't mean I can never learn lessons from other religions, so that is how I cleared myself from the hyphen label, but if someone were actively practicing another religion maybe it makes sense to them.<BR/><BR/>One of my fears - which is a fear and not necessarily substantiated, or is it? - is the word conservative itself. It is a word that means so many things to many people I would never want to scare the liberal people of San Francisco away from a very good religion simply because of a word. Like... does conservative mean lifestyle or political/social views? Are LGBTQ folk more welcomed in one branch than another? How would multiculturalism fit in?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1139876811386343852006-02-13T18:26:00.000-06:002006-02-13T18:26:00.000-06:00Rob, all is well with me. No worries. And thanks...Rob, all is well with me. No worries. <BR/><BR/>And thanks for being a repeat reader! I too enjoy re-reading other bloggers' posts from time to time.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>LizLiz Opphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09802348848085930901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1139787881989367692006-02-12T17:44:00.000-06:002006-02-12T17:44:00.000-06:00Hi Liz,I'm re-reading this post (again!). It spea...Hi Liz,<BR/><BR/>I'm re-reading this post (again!). It speaks to me more now than ever. I will forward it to Friends who I think may find it helpful. <BR/><BR/>Also, I recall apologizing earlier in an email, but let me restate it here: I should know better then to project identities onto others. My sincerest apologies.<BR/><BR/>I hope you are well. <BR/><BR/>Much love,<BR/><BR/>RobRobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02121082135356221967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1123092705538192422005-08-03T13:11:00.000-05:002005-08-03T13:11:00.000-05:00Since Rob seeks to "know more about [my] experienc...Since Rob seeks to "know more about [my] experiences as a lesbian...," I want to be very clear in this moment that <I>I do not identify as lesbian.</I> I identify as <A HREF="http://www.netwurx.net/~bidef/bifaq.html" REL="nofollow">bisexual</A>. My partner is a woman which is why many people think or assume I identify as lesbian. <BR/><BR/>(To be honest, I have made the same assumption when I see straight couples--maybe one of them is bisexual--or even same-sex couples.)<BR/><BR/>Rob, I'll be in touch with you soon!<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>LizLiz Opphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09802348848085930901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1122899643305725362005-08-01T07:34:00.000-05:002005-08-01T07:34:00.000-05:00Hi Liz,As always, many thanks for your blog. I fi...Hi Liz,<BR/><BR/>As always, many thanks for your blog. I find that when I reread things for the third and fourth time, they make so much more sense and perhaps, resonate with where I'm at today rather than the first time I read it. Anyhow, I wanted to know more about your experiences as a lesbian at IYMC and perhaps find out more about the Yahara meeting in Madison. If you have a chance, could you drop me an email at quaker_lilies[at]yahoo[dot]com? Thanks again, RobRobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02121082135356221967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1112193986226651322005-03-30T08:46:00.000-06:002005-03-30T08:46:00.000-06:00Hi Liz!Such great stuff here. I'm so glad you've p...Hi Liz!<BR/>Such great stuff here. I'm so glad you've put this together. I've been wanting to know just how this worship group has functioned--it's a real service to put this up for everyone. And great comments, I'll try to return after I get off work!<BR/>Martin, <A HREF="http://www.nonviolence.org/quaker" REL="nofollow">Quaker Ranter</A>Martin Kelleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06999620933648327663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1112035248345215242005-03-28T12:40:00.000-06:002005-03-28T12:40:00.000-06:00I believe that Traveling Ministries Program doesn'...I believe that Traveling Ministries Program doesn't restrict its visits to affiliated meetings, given that FGC's <A HREF="http://www.fgcquaker.org/info/long-term-plan.html" REL="nofollow">Long Term Plan and Minute of Purpose</A> states it serves "primarily" affiliated meetings. I'm sure the coordinator of the program, Deborah Fisch, would be happy to hear from you to talk at least about the <I>possibility</I> of a traveling Friend or two to visit.<BR/><BR/>Also, you may or may not know that monthly meetings are able to affiliate directly with FGC, independent of a Yearly Meeting's affiliation, though I don't know the process for pursuing this. I'm sure someone at FGC could answer these sorts of questions.<BR/><BR/>Northern Yearly Meeting turns 30 this year, and there is no Quarterly Meeting or Representatives Meeting or Half-Yearly Meeting. We might be long overdue for any sort of vaccinations or spiritual check-up!<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>LizLiz Opphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09802348848085930901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1111993281834040022005-03-28T01:01:00.000-06:002005-03-28T01:01:00.000-06:00OK, here's my brush with Quaker fame: Phil and Mar...OK, here's my brush with Quaker fame: Phil and Mary Moulton were the first ones to take me to a Quaker meeting for worship, because I was, due to a random series of coincidences, staying at their house in Ann Arbor for the weekend. <BR/><BR/>We as a Meeting have not considered asking FGC for anything, largely because Pacific YM is not a member of FGC. A number of Friends are carrying a concern that we ought to affiliate, but that hasn't quite happened yet. We're too busy being Independent.<BR/><BR/>Locally, We had our Quarterly Meeting's committee in for a State of the Meeting clinic (like a well-baby clinic for Meetings) about six years ago. Which was good, but now we need more of an Olympic conditioning program than a few vaccinations. <BR/><BR/>Peace,<BR/>RobinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1111941452401656262005-03-27T10:37:00.000-06:002005-03-27T10:37:00.000-06:00It sounds like you and others in your meeting are ...It sounds like you and others in your meeting are engaged in an important part of deepening Quaker identity and of covenant community: wrestling with the Spirit, laboring with one another, committing to stay in the process as long as thou canst. John Woolman and other earlier Friends use the word "exercise" to describe some of this activity as well. Here is a definition offered by <A HREF="http://www.quakerbooks.org/get/0-944350-10-0" REL="nofollow">Phillips Moulton</A>:<BR/><BR/><I>Inner turmoil; concern; awareness of a burden or obligation. The word has many nuances of meaning, all of which concern intellectual or spiritual, as distinguished from physical, exertion.</I><BR/><BR/>I wonder if what you call "pussyfooting around the central question" is also a form of preparation to go deeper. But of course, each of us has a different tolerance for such pussyfooting, and I hope that Friends are able to take deep breaths and hold one another lovingly and tenderly through this birthing process. Another resource that might be helpful in understanding what you and others are going through is Marty Grundy's essay <A HREF="http://www.quakerinfo.com/ind_mtg1.shtml" REL="nofollow">The Individual and the Meeting.</A><BR/><BR/>One last comment for now: Has the meeting considered asking for support from <A HREF="http://www.fgcquaker.org/traveling" REL="nofollow">FGC's Traveling Ministries Program</A>? (Mine never has, though a few of us continue to bring it up, when there is an opening to do so.) Sometimes an outsider can name things that "insiders" can't or aren't ready to. Other times, when "insiders" have to articulate certain situations to an outsider, it can help Friends get clear on what <I>really</I> is going on, or what might be the next step for them.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for staying in touch. If it would help for you to be able to reach me privately, you can email me at lizopp AT mn DOT rr DOT com.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>LizLiz Opphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09802348848085930901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1111907686917169322005-03-27T01:14:00.000-06:002005-03-27T01:14:00.000-06:00Well, your concise comparison of the three conserv...Well, your concise comparison of the three conservative YM's was helpful. I think I know most about Ohio YM(C) and now I realize I should look more closely at the other two. <BR/><BR/>Maybe 95% was an exaggeration. One of my real struggles with plain speech. In sheer numbers, it's probably half and half. But the weight and degree of involvement of the conservative leaning Friends puts them at a much more influential level. However, each of the conservative leaning Friends I can think of has come in a slightly different path, a highly individual path. I think we are just getting brave enough to say to each other, if I'm serious about this and you're serious, let's go forward with this. <BR/><BR/>We started last May to hold worship sharing where we asked each other, what sustains you and what frustrates you about our Meeting? We started in September having monthly worship sharing on the Advices & Queries of PacYM. We started in December dedicating every third Business Meeting to practicing a deeper level of discernment - to building up our Quaker muscles, so to speak, rather than just hearing committee reports and other routine business. In January, we had a session after Meeting asking Friends to identify what spiritual gifts they felt led to contribute to the Meeting. Now we are in the process of trying to write a State of the Meeting report that reflects not just what we've done, but where we are, who we have become. The interest and support of our first day school program has grown dramatically among non-parents.<BR/><BR/>There are several areas of our life together that are not living out full spiritual discernment. Our committee structure is outdated and our nominations process is faltering. We are still not doing a good job of reaching the YAF's who visit our Meeting every week and don't come back. Some people are now feeling like there's too much going on and they can't do it all. Some of the projects that have been started are feeding a few people's needs but maybe they're not what God really needs from us now. But really, we are in a healthy enough place to ask direct religious questions. <BR/><BR/>Some of this has been active, let's not call it manipulation, but active efforts by some Friends, including me, to say, let's talk about this. Let's put this on the table. To organize the event and call people up and ask them to come to Business Meeting, because hey, something important will be considered this month. But we are still pussyfooting around the central question of what is God calling us to do as a Meeting. <BR/><BR/>I'm now trying to read this as if I were someone else in my Meeting and wondering if others would recognize it from my description, and whether my recollections are too clouded by what I wish to hear!, but no. I will probably copy part of this comment into my reply to the Clerk of Meeting about the draft of the State of the Meeting report.<BR/><BR/>More on F&P later.<BR/>Thank you.<BR/><BR/>RobinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1111854415281512952005-03-26T10:26:00.000-06:002005-03-26T10:26:00.000-06:00Hi, Robin. I'm a bit confused: if 95% of the mon...Hi, Robin. I'm a bit confused: if 95% of the monthly meeting wishes to return to (i.e. conserve) traditional practices of Friends, what gets in the way of doing that <I>as a meeting</I>? <BR/><BR/>I know you've posted some of your experience <A HREF="http://www.nonviolence.org/martink/archives/000557.php" REL="nofollow">in other places</A> as well as on my blog, so in a way I'm asking you to pull the individual pieces together for me. (See the advantages of having a blog...? <I>wink</I>)<BR/><BR/>I should also let you know that even though the worship group has now been warmly received by the monthly meeting, no one who attended the adult education program has inquired further or shown up to worship with us. Not everyone has the fortitude to leave behind the comforts of familiar faces and known routines in order to explore "starting a church," as one among us declared excitedly, early on.<BR/><BR/>Laboring with a meeting is long, slow work. In my case, it has required planting lots of seeds... and waiting. There is no way to know how the individual pieces that emerge (or don't) through ad hoc committee work, through offering adult education forums, through writing pieces for the newsletter, through having one-on-one conversations with members of M&C, through discernment committees... There is no way to know how or when the individual pieces will suddenly fit together to allow for a corporate Ah Hah! moment. Still, we must be faithful; we must yield to the prompting of the Spirit even as we cannot know how the Shepherd will reunite the flock.<BR/><BR/>Specific to your question about the Books of Discipline (F&P) of each of the three Conservative yearly meetings, I have not read them cover to cover. I have looked a bit at <A HREF="http://www.quakernet.org/Discipline%201974/discipline.htm" REL="nofollow">Iowa's</A> online; I've looked even less at <A HREF="http://ncymc.org/discipline.html" REL="nofollow">North Carolina's</A> and <A HREF="http://www.ohioyearlymeeting.org/discipline.htm" REL="nofollow">Ohio's</A>. I will be the first to acknowledge that reading is not my forté: I am much more experiential. So I cannot speak to how the Disciplines compare.<BR/><BR/>I will say, though, that I recall having heard the three Yearly Meetings described this way, by a Friend from Iowa YM (but my recollections are always clouded by that which I wish to hear!): Iowa Conservative is apparently closer to Liberal Friends in terms of theology and practice; Ohio is closer to Evangelical Friends; and North Carolina is in the middle of the two. <BR/><BR/>Like you, I have concerns in reading that of the 10 Friends participating in the F&P retreat, only one (yourself) is younger than 65. Given the query that is being lifted up to guide the work of the retreat--and potentially the ministry of the YM in the near future--how then can our elder Friends effectively <A HREF="http://thegoodraisedup.blogspot.com/2005/03/quakerism-from-generation-to.html" REL="nofollow">transmit a rich, vibrant faith and practice</A> (written and embodied) to our younger ones, without hearing from them and being spiritually intimate with them? How can a written document avoid the hazards of becoming mere rhetoric as it is handed down from generation to generation? Might the answers to the query, <I>What is the powerful message of Friends for the world? And how is that reflected, or not, in F&P?</I> be answered rather differently by young adult Friends than by our aging Friends? And if that is the case, what then are the implications for moving forward with this process as is? <BR/><BR/>I wonder if this retreat group, as a <A HREF="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=defmore&q=define:COHORT" REL="nofollow">cohort</A>, is really wishing to document what <B><I>it</I></B> has come to know as it's own "powerful message for the world," and hope that <I><B>others</B></I> will then add to the discernment, discussion, and process as Way opens.<BR/><BR/>I'm afraid I am only asking more questions, rather than providing answers. I hope you'll let me (us) know how things turn out, and I pray that you are faithful in this work, however that emerges.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>LizLiz Opphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09802348848085930901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1111815094696582442005-03-25T23:31:00.000-06:002005-03-25T23:31:00.000-06:00Dear Liz,Thank you!This is very, very interesting....Dear Liz,<BR/><BR/>Thank you!<BR/><BR/>This is very, very interesting. My husband and I have joked that what we need is San Francisco Friends Meeting (Conservative) but then we realize that 95% of the active members would go with us, so what's the point. We just haven't gotten clear enough with each other, to actually say that out loud in Meeting for Business. <BR/><BR/>I am curious about how much the written books of Faith and Practice of the various Yearly Meetings you're considering vary, both from each other and from the lived faith and practice of each. I am going to a retreat next weekend about Pacific YM's F&P. The question posed is "What is the powerful message of Friends for the world? And how is that reflected, or not, in F&P?" The good news is that our YM is considering just this question. The bad news is that of the 10 fine people who signed up, I'm the only one under 65. If you have any inspiration or would be willing to share your experience in this area of F&P, please, I would be much obliged for your input.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com