tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post112559923396868777..comments2024-03-22T03:10:08.766-05:00Comments on The Good Raised Up: My take on the renewal of QuakerismUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1139001606873374762006-02-03T15:20:00.000-06:002006-02-03T15:20:00.000-06:00Of course, there are limits and standards that sti...<I>Of course, there are limits and standards that stifle one's spirit, and there are those that hone us and exercise us spiritually. Perhaps a sign of spiritual maturity is knowing the difference between the two...?</I><BR/><BR/>An excellent point -- and I think this discernment can be harder than it sounds! But I like your idea that one of the benefits of spiritual maturity is a greater ease in knowing the difference between limits that bind us and limits that allow us to grow freely...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1135828124988794332005-12-28T21:48:00.000-06:002005-12-28T21:48:00.000-06:00Beppe, glad to learn that some of what I have post...<B>Beppe</B>, glad to learn that some of what I have posted here resonates with you. Thanks for adding the possibility of podcasts--that technology is still too new for me to have thought of it!<BR/><BR/>You ask, <I>"What do you mean [about giving back to the Quaker community] 'in a way that holds power for you'? Do you mean giving back... in a way that enlivens you spiritually...?"</I><BR/><BR/>Yes. <BR/><BR/>What I wanted to lift up here was that we be careful not to fall into the trap of committee service if that is not where our leading is, or more specifically, if we are led NOT to serve. Peer pressure among Friends is alive and well, sadly.<BR/><BR/>What's important is (1) that we <I><B>recognize</B></I> the impulse, desire, or prompt to "give back," and (2) that we live into the question, "What does that look like, so I might serve freely, give of myself faithfully, and give out of deep love?"<BR/><BR/>Thanks for giving me the chance to clarify.<BR/><BR/>And thanks, too, <B>Zach Alexander</B>, for your comment and the concern you raise about a remark I made. <BR/><BR/>You write, in part, <I>"I wonder whether we can so easily assume that what happens in a good unprogrammed meeting for worship and a good programmed one are the same thing."</I><BR/><BR/>It was not my intention to make or offer such an assumption, so I'm glad you are asking about it. <BR/><BR/>As I was writing this post, I found myself thinking of my Quaker Friend who finds God in music and song, as well as in unprogrammed, corporate worship. And I found myself thinking of Quaker bloggers like <A HREF="http://ajschwanz.com" REL="nofollow">Aj Schwanz</A>, who clearly feel close to God in their programmed worship and through sharing fellowship within their Quaker church. <BR/><BR/>To be clear, I was affirming that we each touch joy and feel close to God in different ways--but I did NOT intend to imply that a renewal of [unprogrammed] Quakerism can be found outside the tradition of corporately seeking for and waiting on the Spirit. <BR/><BR/>My own personal sense of renewal among Friends, and my own strengthened sense of identity AS a Friend, comes from being involved in a community that practices the discipline of waiting on God, which is very much dependent on a belief in God (a.k.a. the Light, the Seed, the Presence, Christ, etc.).<BR/><BR/>So, I would agree with you, Zach: <I>"I just think we...[should] not surrender the witness of unprogrammed Quakerism (whether liberal or Conservative)...so easily."</I><BR/><BR/>This is very much a part of the spiritual concern I carry, that the current renewal will be grounded in reintegrating practices, restoring spiritual language, and re-valuing the direct experience of the Light. I hope my clarifications are helpful.<BR/><BR/>And I appreciate the "respectful dialogue" with which you approach the topic. <BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>LizLiz Opphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09802348848085930901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1135821487540769592005-12-28T19:58:00.000-06:002005-12-28T19:58:00.000-06:00I am humbled to be reminded, though, that each of ...<I>I am humbled to be reminded, though, that each of us experiences joy and the Holy Spirit through different modes and through different forms of worship: programmed or unprogrammed worship; hymns or silence; Christ Jesus or Earth Mother.</I><BR/><BR/>Liz, I don't want to come across as intolerant or "unprogrammedocentric", and if your experience confirms what you said above, that definitely means something. But I wonder whether we can so easily assume that what happens in a good unprogrammed meeting for worship and a good programmed one are the same thing. I think early Friends might well think that in hymn-singing, for example, one is merely stimulating one's human emotions and not encountering the Holy Spirit, even if hymn-singers themselves feel this is the case. That doens't mean it's not a valuable, even religiously significant exercise, but it still may be a very different sort of valuable religious exercise.<BR/><BR/>I'm not saying they're right; just because early Friends think something doesn't make it true. I just think we should consider this viewpoint, and not surrender the witness of unprogrammed Quakerism (whether liberal or Conservative) on this point so easily.<BR/><BR/>I hope that there is a way of maintaining that difference that doesn't degenerate into chauvinism or isolationism, but stays at the level of respectful dialogue.Zach Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03081152597455627366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1135744897706377122005-12-27T22:41:00.000-06:002005-12-27T22:41:00.000-06:00Hi, Isabel Jane. Thanks for stopping by and remin...Hi, Isabel Jane. Thanks for stopping by and reminding me that there is always a balance to be struck, between thinking, doing, and being. This is a topic that has been rising in me regarding the worship group I participate in: I myself have been very inwardly focused as we find our footing and understand our leading as a small community. <BR/><BR/>Witness without thought can be impulsive and chaotic. Thought without witness, though, cannot bring about change or healing. <BR/><BR/>I'm grateful for your comment. <BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>LizLiz Opphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09802348848085930901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1135743098183417762005-12-27T22:11:00.000-06:002005-12-27T22:11:00.000-06:00What a wonderful challenge your postings always ar...What a wonderful challenge your postings always are to me, the inspirational sort. I have little leading to *think* about Quakers and Quakerism. I would have to say I am led mostly to *do* and live my Quaker faith. But I am heartily glad to have Quakers like you to move my foggy thoughts so carefully from one point to another.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com