tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post112922590897254534..comments2024-03-22T03:10:08.766-05:00Comments on The Good Raised Up: Exercised by the SpiritUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1138926004419856222006-02-02T18:20:00.000-06:002006-02-02T18:20:00.000-06:00LF, thanks for stopping by. It's always good for ...<B>LF</B>, thanks for stopping by. It's always good for me to get a comment months after the original post because then it prompts me to re-read what I had written, to see what I have learned since then...<BR/><BR/>Your comments also cause me to pause and reflect further. And, given I am hardly familiar with Scripture, you prompted me to look there to discover how Jesus <B><I>did</I></B> treat tax collectors and sinners:<BR/><BR/><I>10 While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" came and ate with him and his disciples. 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"<BR/><BR/>12 On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."</I> (<A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%209:10-13&version=31" REL="nofollow">Matthew 9:10-13</A>)<BR/><BR/>LF, there is no time limit for adding comments. Thanks for taking the time to do so!<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>LizLiz Opphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09802348848085930901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1129850308806485082005-10-20T18:18:00.000-05:002005-10-20T18:18:00.000-05:00Friends,About a half-dozen readers have helped me ...Friends,<BR/><BR/>About a half-dozen readers have helped me reconsider an extended comment that I had made here and have now removed. Granted, it is a no-no in the blogging world to remove a post (or a lengthy comment?), but I haven’t known Quakers to bow automatically to external authority or to conform unthinkingly to group norms.<BR/><BR/>I undertook this reconsideration because of a concern raised by a reader about the nature of my original comment. It felt important enough for me to do some checks with other Friends.<BR/><BR/>About half the Friends I contacted did not share the first Friend’s concern. Which means that half of them did, though apparently not as intensely. <BR/><BR/>One of the touchstones I use in my life these days is “What does it mean, in this circumstance, to do the right thing right?” <BR/><BR/>I feel a sense of opening, not when I consider removing the comment, but when I consider rewriting it. So I have, below.<BR/><BR/>-Liz<BR/><BR/>. . . . . . . . . . . .<BR/><BR/>Here are the key questions that the past month has raised for me.<BR/><BR/><I>Among Friends, who has authority; who gives it, and who is or isn't supposed to listen to it? Who gets to decide what a Friendly process should or shouldn’t look like?<BR/><BR/>What does silence around letting certain Quaker practices fall away say to other Friends about the place of traditional methods, methods that are based on why we worship together and test our leadings with one another in the first place? <BR/><BR/>Is the use of efficient practices going to replace Spirit-led corporate practices, with very few Friends blinking an eye? And who says Spirit-led corporate practices won’t be efficient in the long run?<BR/><BR/>Around the question of accountability, who gets to say if something is or isn't in keeping with Quaker practices? and what happens if a Friend or Friends’ group no longer seems to be “minding the Light”?<BR/><BR/>What is the responsibility of an individual committee member to a committee; an individual Friend to her meeting?</I><BR/><BR/>. . . . . . . . . . . . .<BR/><BR/>On a different note, a theme that has more recently emerged for me is how Quakers are like family, which in this case, other questions arise:<BR/><BR/><I>How much do we make the troubles of our family public, and with what intention? How much “laundry” can be “aired” before others in the metaphorical family get upset and say we have crossed a line or violated part of the family’s trust? When do we keep difficulties among ourselves and when do we refuse to keep silent?</I><BR/><BR/>Thanks to everyone--you've got me thinking and wondering and chewing on some important questions.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>LizLiz Opphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09802348848085930901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1129819403951894482005-10-20T09:43:00.000-05:002005-10-20T09:43:00.000-05:00Just to comment on the most trivial part of this, ...Just to comment on the most trivial part of this, according to usage in my meeting or at least in my understanding, a clerk serves a standing committee or Meeting and a convenor serves a temporary or short term group.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1129683626513978502005-10-18T20:00:00.000-05:002005-10-18T20:00:00.000-05:00Hey, Beppe, you read my mind on a few things. Yes...Hey, Beppe, you read my mind on a few things. Yes, my lengthy comment could have been a separate post but I didn't want to give it that much "attention." (I don't have THAT much distance from the situation yet...)<BR/><BR/>Something I feel easier with, though, is to put a note at the bottom of the original post, directing readers to the "Part 2" portion of the story, embedded in the comments. <BR/><BR/>And yes, I intentionally use the word "convener" because I reserve the word "clerk" to mean a Friend who presides over a meeting and who, in doing so, listens for the Spirit and tests the sense of the meeting or group. ...Not something this particular Friend had a gift for or understanding of, it seems. <BR/><BR/>It's hard to find the balance between sharing my experience and being respectful of the other people involved... That's the balance I am hoping to strike here, for the sake of lifting up the concerns I wrestle with.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>LizLiz Opphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09802348848085930901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1129678804906663892005-10-18T18:40:00.000-05:002005-10-18T18:40:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Liz Opphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09802348848085930901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-1129586118558752332005-10-17T16:55:00.000-05:002005-10-17T16:55:00.000-05:00Liz -I feel like I'm trying to guess at what you'r...Liz -<BR/><BR/>I feel like I'm trying to guess at what you're talking about, which is distracting to me, but I think in general if we can leave out the details, we can see the process more clearly.<BR/><BR/>It seems that you have done a lot of good, and hard, work.<BR/><BR/>I am reminded of a conversation we had in your car once (going where I cant' quite remember) in which I talked of how often "holding people in the light" felt less like a warm, nurturing hearthfire or grow-light, and more like a trial-by-fire, something almost violent (though passionate might be a better word.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes we are granted a warm, comforting light that nurtures that of God in us, and sometimes a fire that burns away that which is not.<BR/><BR/>Both are blessings.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for sharing this part of your journey with us.<BR/><BR/>Pamefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01439718927967964939noreply@blogger.com