tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post1755137655861449695..comments2024-03-22T03:10:08.766-05:00Comments on The Good Raised Up: The Convergent Friends talk I didn't giveUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-87824191298576160902009-12-01T14:52:14.691-06:002009-12-01T14:52:14.691-06:00Interesting... As I think about our Meeting, seems...Interesting... As I think about our Meeting, seems like those who were obsessed with the negative & leaving Jesus behind left Meeting & went elsewhere. The rest of us have grown (are still growing). We're a small group & I've only been there 12 years, so my experience is limited.Kim Rangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17162070006884922210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-52174466433566317492009-12-01T12:34:07.801-06:002009-12-01T12:34:07.801-06:00Kim, I've heard versions of that for many year...Kim, I've heard versions of that for many years. And I have known a few Friends who have started from a spiritual nowhere or rejection of their religious background who found the liberal Quaker milieu one in which they grew spiritually - and sometimes outgrew their liberal meetings.<br /><br />But more often it seems to work as a mutual reinforcement for the negative attitudes people bring about Jesus Christ. And for those who come as Christians, it often seems to result in compromising their faith to get along.<br /><br />I am now part of a church that is full of "misfits" who didn't fit in where they were, or who were unchurched who were repelled by what they saw in churches. But there's a big difference, in that at my church people come open and willing to learn what it does really mean to follow Jesus Christ, rather than be obsessed with the negative and throwing out the baby with the bath water as seems common among liberal Friends.Bill Samuelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00752443575410023776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-71662322435134679372009-12-01T08:04:06.202-06:002009-12-01T08:04:06.202-06:00Hi Bill & Liz--
I've found that among our ...Hi Bill & Liz--<br />I've found that among our liberal meeting, most are "converts," i.e., we/they come from other denominations or spiritual practices or from no practice at all. So, learning about Quaker tradition helps me, & seemingly others, to be MORE open to the Spirit and its leadings. Sometimes simply learning the language helps us talk openly with each other.Kim Rangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17162070006884922210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-9838244176104027532009-11-30T12:27:22.311-06:002009-11-30T12:27:22.311-06:00Bill -
Thanks for the follow-up. I don't fin...<b>Bill</b> -<br /><br />Thanks for the follow-up. I don't find the yearning for a rigorous and vibrant Quakerism to exclude the central discipline of turning to the Inward Teacher: they are mutually compatible in my own mind, heart, and experience.<br /><br />And yes, sometimes the online (and offline) Convergent conversation gets too filled with "stuff" and then someone like you or Martin or whomever will remind us to be still... <br /><br />All a reminder to me of how Quakerism is grounded in the covenant community that strives to mind the Light...<br /><br />Blessings,<br />LizLiz Opphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09802348848085930901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-52791574122834118012009-11-28T10:40:39.952-06:002009-11-28T10:40:39.952-06:00I think a yearning to do deeper into Quaker tradit...I think a yearning to do deeper into Quaker tradition is dangerous. The key is not the tradition. The key is the Spirit which infused the tradition. Early Friends did not become Spirit-filled by going deeper into tradition, and present-day ones won't either, I think.<br /><br />It seems to me there has been movement in at least the blogosphere part of Convergent Friends to get too wrapped up in all the controversies and stuff in Quakerism. That easily becomes a distraction from being led by the Holy Spirit.Bill Samuelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00752443575410023776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-81003144226778329322009-11-27T15:43:25.571-06:002009-11-27T15:43:25.571-06:00Eileen -
As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm hoping...<b>Eileen</b> -<br /><br />As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm hoping other readers and bloggers will chime in: while some Friends may find this post "helpful," I'm wondering about the extent to which the post is accurate or fails in some way. <br /><br /><b>Martin</b> -<br /><br />I like the comment you start with: <i>"Convergence... depends on where you start from... I wonder if it fits the experience of Friends from other traditions."</i><br /><br />I'm glad that <a href="http://questforadequacy.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Ashley</a> has replied, and I've enjoyed collaborating with <a href="http://gatheringinlight.com/" rel="nofollow">C. Wess Daniels</a> on his work to craft an entry for the new edition of <a href="http://www.quakerbooks.org/a_to_z_of_the_friends_quakers.php" rel="nofollow">From A to Z of the Friends</a>, about Convergent Friends.<br /><br />I would say I am not so interested in the <i>variety of practice</i> among Friends either, though I cannot deny that I have made connections and friendships with Quakers who engage in "outward forms" that are different from my own. But those forms seem to hold Life for these Friends, and as you mention, there seems to be a living tradition that we are tapping--looking back for guidance as well as peering forward for new understandings...<br /><br />I really don't sense that you and I are very far apart when it comes to articulating what Convergence is or isn't among Friends. As always, I'm open to reading more of your thoughts and considerations, as you are Given them or otherwise come upon them.<br /><br />Blessings,<br />LizLiz Opphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09802348848085930901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-79576975426766347922009-11-24T20:20:01.771-06:002009-11-24T20:20:01.771-06:00I've always thought that what Convergence mean...I've always thought that what Convergence means depends on where you start from. This strikes me as a good liberal Quaker vision of Convergence but I wonder if it fits the experience of Friends from other traditions.<br /><br />I'm enough of a Conservative Friend these days that I don't buy into the idea that there's no right or wrong and I'm not actually all that interested in the "many forms" of Quakerism. What does intrigue me are the thoughtful Friends I've found in all traditions that are wrestling with their understanding of Quaker faith and practice. To be a person in a living tradition is to hold tight to the essentials of our faith while adapting to the new social opportunities. To see what other Friends consider essential and to understand what they've chosen to drop or stress is important testing for me.<br /><br />Convergent Friends are often blamed for not laying out a coherent vision of an alternative Quakerism. I hope we resist the effort to box us in. I would hate to see Convergent become a byword for any particular branch of Friends, though I fear it might be inevitable.Martin Kelleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06999620933648327663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-29125235575457495792009-11-24T17:39:14.823-06:002009-11-24T17:39:14.823-06:00Thanks, Liz. As someone who has not been part of t...Thanks, Liz. As someone who has not been part of this conversation, I found this helpful and resonated with it very much.Eileen Flanaganhttp://www.eileenflanagan.com/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-54571841922563642842009-11-24T17:19:11.638-06:002009-11-24T17:19:11.638-06:00Ashley -
It's funny--even ironic--to find mys...<b>Ashley</b> -<br /><br />It's funny--even ironic--to find myself describing Convergent Friends by what we're NOT: we're NOT a movement, we're NOT a branch, we're NOT a split...<br /><br />Somehow, breaking the thing into topics that the (online) conversation often touches on made it easier to talk about.<br /><br />And I'm relieved to know that I'm not the only one who squirms a bit when someone identifies me as a Convergent Friend.<br /><br /><b>Kathy</b> -<br /><br />Thanks for the compliment. I'd like to see what other sorts of comments and additions might come forward first before giving anything resembling a green light. I'll send you an email to talk further.<br /><br /><b>Bill</b> -<br /><br />In light of Kathy's comment and my response to it, your timing is perfect! <br /><br />While your perception is accurate--I didn't include in the list any sort of "central principle," but that wasn't intentional--I would say that the last item I included, what I labeled as "attitude," gets <b><i>close</i></b> to what that principle might be:<br /><br /><i>a yearning to go deeper into Quaker tradition... while remembering the Source and Inward Teacher that [we] earnestly strive to Know.</i><br /><br />In addition to that, I'd say Convergent Friends are well rooted (but not always perfectly) in the motion of Love. <br /><br />From that place of Love, we <b><i>can</i></b> learn about and learn <b><i>from</i></b> the diversity of faith and practice that exists within the family that is the Religious Society of Friends.<br /><br />Hope that helps-- great question!<br /><br />And I hope that other Friends will feel free to reply to Bill, either here or elsewhere.<br /><br />Blessings,<br />LizLiz Opphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09802348848085930901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-85956152892536634412009-11-24T17:06:27.671-06:002009-11-24T17:06:27.671-06:00This description tends to emphasize diversity in f...This description tends to emphasize diversity in faith and practice. It doesn't really define any center or common focus.<br /><br />Would you say it's primarily about a conversation, and a conversation with no particular focus, other than some relationship to Quakerism?Bill Samuelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00752443575410023776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-59183183731552474062009-11-24T16:54:02.553-06:002009-11-24T16:54:02.553-06:00Liz, this is a really nice summary. I'd love t...Liz, this is a really nice summary. I'd love to put it to use in a future issue of Western Friend magazine--let me know if you would be open to that! editor at westernfriend dot org.Kathy, Western Friendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10877753449129579233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-57462225218765972522009-11-24T13:15:58.284-06:002009-11-24T13:15:58.284-06:00Thanks for posting this description, Liz. I am un...Thanks for posting this description, Liz. I am uncomfortable with labeling myself Convergent too, but it is sometimes easier as a shorthand than explaining my various affiliations/leanings in the RSOF. I am glad that you focused on how Convergent Friends are engaged in a conversation rather than being a split or starting a new branch of Friends.<br /><br />--AshleyAshley Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04767912859236943934noreply@blogger.com