tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post6358660911663602437..comments2024-03-22T03:10:08.766-05:00Comments on The Good Raised Up: Guest piece by Marshall Massey: Why we practice corporate discernmentUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-67515055443145893872010-10-27T11:46:29.489-05:002010-10-27T11:46:29.489-05:00Tom -
Thanks for affirming Friend Marshall's ...<b>Tom</b> -<br /><br />Thanks for affirming Friend Marshall's understanding of traditional practices as they relate to our meetings for worship for business.<br /><br /><b>Martin</b> and <b>Bill</b> -<br /><br />We each have shared our frustrations about our experience within our respective monthly meetings. And yes, some of us choose to leave while others of us feel no sense of being "released" by the Spirit (as was/is my own experience). <br /><br />I am starting to look at our monthly meetings through the lens of privilege--white privilege, age privilege, class privilege--and I begin to see how the larger institutions of American society in which our meetings are embedded have undermined the spiritual power, Divine love, and corporate discipline that used to be central to our practice.<br /><br />Where I personally have seen change has been when one, two, or a few Friends begin to speak earnestly and with great love to those older/senior Friends about what early Quakers understood and drew upon. <br /><br />Sometimes those Friends who have begun to speak out have done so while serving as clerk of the meeting or within M&C; occasionally it's happened during MfWfB. And when one Friend has given voice to that longing and earnestness (?), another Friend or two seems to be given a similar courage to speak as well. <br /><br />Granted, in my own case, this has taken years rather than months, and I've been helped by worshiping concurrently with a second Quaker group that has supported me in my concern. <br /><br />But without a doubt, many times I have felt the pang of feeling like "a prophet in [my] own land"--which is why the internet and blogging has been such a balm to some of us, it seems.<br /><br />Blessings,<br />LizLiz Opphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09802348848085930901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-71782152506661817072010-10-23T17:56:58.666-05:002010-10-23T17:56:58.666-05:00Marshall's comments are helpful. Years before ...Marshall's comments are helpful. Years before I formally left my Friends meeting, I stopped attending business meetings.<br /><br />This was because I realized that the basis of meeting for business there was quite different from the traditional Friends practice of corporate discernment. I came into business meetings with a very different approach than the general one of the meeting.<br /><br />It had come to me that it didn't really make sense for me to call them to act in a way they were quite unwilling to. Appealing to Friends tradition was not very meaningful because generally the faith of Friends in the meeting was very different from that of early Friends.<br /><br />So, not having a common basis for decision making with the group, I opted out of the process. At that point, it probably was inevitable that I would formally leave the meeting. The only questions were when and to where I would go.<br /><br />Art Larrabee's position makes great sense with where many Friends are at. He is very skilled at clerking business within that understanding. But it ia, as Marshall points out, very different from the approach of early Friends despite some outward similarities.<br /><br />I think we need to be honest and straightforward about such great differences. Too often Friends pretend they are on the same page about Friends practices when in fact they are not at all. If Friends really are concerned about integrity, they must honestly recognize the major differences in faith and practice.<br /><br />And if your faith is markedly different from that of the meeting, you should consider carefully whether you belong there. In some cases, God may indeed want you there but often Friends are staying out of a failure to recognize the depth of the differences or a fruitless attempt to change the majority to their faith understanding.<br /><br />We must worship Christ, not a particular faith group, either local or denominational.Bill Samuelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00752443575410023776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-18301005085344855602010-10-23T12:12:44.029-05:002010-10-23T12:12:44.029-05:00Thanks for writing this Marshall, and for sharing ...Thanks for writing this Marshall, and for sharing it Liz. It makes me sad, as I think Marshall does a good job at explaining why modern-day Philadelphia Yearly Meeting-style community-building isn't the Quaker process that early Friends put in place. "Community" is the safe word past which we almost never go. Discernment is technique and style. <br /><br />You get ostracized pretty fast if talk about God too much. And if you point out your ostracism you get free psychoanalysis (a prominent Friend privately responded to my <a href="http://www.quakerranter.org/2010/09/getting_a_horse_to_drink/" rel="nofollow">recent post on Interim Meeting</a> by saying "I feel your hurt" asking "how do we engage in helpful dialog about your observations and pain?" though my post's tone was one of bemusement). I like Marshall's description of discernment as the seeking of God's will. It's obvious, yes. It's Quaker, yes. But somewhere along the way official Philadelphia Friends chose worship of self (near-exclusive focus on community) over worship of God. Sigh.Martin Kelleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06999620933648327663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10737238.post-15981139132781467882010-10-23T11:46:13.673-05:002010-10-23T11:46:13.673-05:00Thanks for sharing this.
Although I don't alw...Thanks for sharing this.<br /><br />Although I don't always agree with Marshall ;-} this is one time that the Friend speaks my mind.Tom Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12194918323559385371noreply@blogger.com