It happened one night last week: I was finishing up a phone call with Robin M when she off-handedly asked me if I was doing the blog contest with Brent Bill. I had been so out of the blog loop for the weeks leading up to that point, I had no idea what she was talking about.
Robin explained to me that the Quaker author and fellow blogger was having a contest of sorts, to help promote his book, Sacred Compass: The Way of Spiritual Discernment. Robin pointed me to Brent's blog post that described the contest's parameters, which I took a peek at.
Then I briefly considered going to bed.
The thing is, the contest was scheduled to end that day. And I had hung up the phone with Robin at 11:10 pm.
Maybe I still had a chance to squeak in under the wire... if midnight was relative in Brent's eyes.
What time did I say I wanted to get up in the morning...?! I had asked myself. Ah, well.
At 11:51 pm, Central Daylight Time, I emailed my five best, hurried-but-thoughtful questions to Brent, along with an explanation for my late entry and the request that even if my questions were received too late for the contest, could he answer them anyway, for my own satisfaction?
Brent was kind enough not only to answer my questions but also to include my literal eleventh-hour entry.
Before sharing the interview, I want to add that I chose not to look at the interviews that had already been posted by a number of fFriends (the list and links are included below).
I also chose not to beat myself over the head for not having read Sacred Compass, let alone any other Brent Bill book.
Instead, I've just made it a point to strike out on my own, having no clue what Brent's writing style is like, what he covers in his book, or what others are interested in asking.
Also, after receiving his answers, I found that I had a follow-up comment and question to one item in particular, so I've included a paraprhase of it--and Brent's additional response--within the flow of the interview itself.
My interview with Brent is below, though I've rearranged the order in which I originally asked the questions.
The InterviewQ. What was your first experience when you began to have an inkling about having an inner compass?
Hmmm, I was pretty young. I'd say 11-12. I wouldn't have called it a compass back then. But I did sense that God had things for me to do -- including what we Evangelical Friends called "full-time Christian service," which usually meant being a pastor or missionary.Q. What trends have you noticed among contemporary Friends, either towards or away from the understanding of an Inward Teacher? Is there something that seems to move Friends toward a clearer understanding? away from it?
Missionary didn't fit me -- so I assumed I'd be a pastor. Lots of things in my life led me toward that -- even when I resisted. But my heart/soul always seemed to be called back to following God and saying, "Okay, what do you want me to do." The same feeling I had as a kid.
I think it depends on the type of Friends you're thinking about. Certainly, the more fundamentalist types of Friends seem to place so much emphasis on the Bible that they distrust even the idea of an Inner Teacher.Q. I was raised in a Jewish household and am only recently beginning to appreciate Scripture and its place in contemporary Quakerism. Recently I've begun wondering if there are certain stories or passages in the Torah, the "first five books," that Quakers draw on for teachings--aside from "Love thy neighbor" and "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your strength..." (Deuteronomy 6:5)
On the other end, some very liberal Friends place so much emphasis on the Inner Teacher that they forget that that Teacher can use external things such as the Bible to help guide us.
Both extremes are dangerous, I think, and we need to find a balance between Christ as Inner Teacher and Outer Teacher.
It seems as if Quakers don't draw on the Old Testament in anywhere near the same proportion as we do with the New Testament, yet Jesus was Jewish.
I'm finding I want to hear from Quakers who are better versed than I in Scripture as to what elements of the Old Testament do Friends look to for guidance; and is there a reason we don't hear many Friends quote these [Hebrew] texts? (...or am I just worshiping in the wrong meeting?)
Well, I don't do much, I guess with Torah, but I have done a lot with the Jewish Bible.Q. What is one thing you are afraid or hesitant to tell other Quakers about yourself?
I spend a lot of time in the Psalms, which seem to me to be the Quaker Old Testament book in the same way John is our New Testament go-to gospel.
The Psalms reveal the struggle to heed the Inner Teacher -- and to complain, seek, whine, rejoice, etc with the God who goes with and in us. The Psalms, to me, often sound a lot like Fox's Journal -- without all the Christ language.
I think too many of us Quaker-types stay away from the Old Testament because we don't know what to do with all the war and violence parts. Which is a mistake in no small part because Torah describes not just the ancient world but today's world -- and just possibly could provide some clues for how we should behold God in the living of our lives today.
Hmmm, perhaps that's one reason it's still being read by millions even to this day. LOL.
Ah, probably that I cuss too much. But then the Quakers who know me really well already know that. The older I get, the more transparent I'm trying to be.I'm stuck on this reply in particular, about one thing you are hesitant to tell other Quakers about yourself:
That's much different for me than it was 20 years ago, when I felt like I had to present myself as pretty smart and spiritually deep. Which, of course, didn't work well! Though I've always tried say, "What you see is what you get" when it comes to presenting myself, I used to be pretty careful about how self-revelatory I was. I still am fairly private in some matters, I guess, but have gotten over the having to be perfect sort of ideal.
On the one hand, given what seems to be a common intersection between the secular world and contemporary Quakerism, I'm personally not surprised to learn that you "cuss too much."
On the other hand, if the perception you have of how others experience you is that you are... virtuous... morally superior...? (insert superlative adjective here), then it makes sense that there may be some trepidation in "getting off your own pedestal." Transparency, as you put it, helps with that, sure, and cursing can let someone know you have feelings and frustrations like the rest of us.
What I'm curious to know is, do you struggle to be seen and known as a "peer" within your meeting? Do you already experience a sense of "being known in that which is eternal," or is it something you yearn for? What gets in the way of being known deeply, and/or what seems to help?
Well, Liz, I'm not sure what others' experience of me is -- virtuous or not. I have certainly never consciously tried to set myself up in such a way that people might think I am "morally superior." If I have, it's a failing that I regret.Q. Given how much the secular world has crept into our Quaker faith--attending to busy schedules; watching the clock towards the "end" of Meeting for Worship; individualism; etc.--what two or three things of Quakerism might you wish would creep into the secular world?
Somebody, recently, told me that they (and some others) considered me a weighty Friend. That thought really unnerved me -- so much so that I even hesitate to mention it. I don't see myself that way and it's not out of any false humility. I am well aware of my inadequacies of faith and practice. I am no paragon of piety and, while I hopefully am growing toward God, I am well aware that I've a long way left on that journey.
One of my greatest joys is that, in our little worship group, I'm considered just one member there, no more and no less important than any other. I hope, as a minister of writing (in particular), that I offer helpful words of spiritual significance, but if I do it's because the Spirit has worked in and through those words and they come through no virtue of my own.
One thing that I think is an obstacle of being known deeply, especially within the context of the faithful community, is the issue of trust. Transparency requires a certain level of trust even at its most basic level.
I think to be known deeply requires a deep level of trust, the sort of trust that is probably developed best in smaller worship-sharing groups than larger faith communities. Thus I feel pretty free to be completely transparent at the Friends in Fellowship group of 10-15 of us who meeting regularly, but less so at the local Friends meeting that I've attended (depending on where I lived at the time) off and on for almost 30 years (gosh am I that old????).
So trust, and enough spiritual maturity to finally realize it's not all about me (or even mostly about me), helps me be known.
I do wish that the idea of slowness would infect the secular world.I trust we'll meet someday, somewhere--most likely at a Convergent Friends dinner or panel discussion! And again, thanks, Brent, for the opportunity to be part of this exchange.
It seems to me that Quakerism, when done well, is faith going slow -- both literally and figuratively. Time is not of the essence in quite the same way in a Quaker meeting as at the local community church. We take time to slow our thoughts and souls and hearts. As we do so, we become more attentive to the life around us -- spiritual life, communal life, physical life. I think that's a good thing.
We're a sort of spiritual version of the "slow food" movement. Slow soul food -- perhaps that should be our marketing slogan. If we could ever decide to market!
I hope the answers are okay. I tried to keep 'em short since it's a blog. They were really good and fun to wrestle with.
I hope to meet you in person some day.
Now off I go to read the other bloggers' posts who have interviewed Brent!
I N T E R V I E W S
Lovin' Life Liz's interview
Robin's first post for her interview, posted over several entries
Brent himself has posted an interview with Jo Morgan, since Jo no longer blogs
O T H E R
Brent Bill's own page about his book Sacred Compass
An audio clip from the book's introduction
Podcasts that are read from the book: there is a link at this post of Brent's
Books about corporate discernment