Guest piece by Marshall Massey: Why we practice corporate discernment

Marshall sent me an email in response to my previous post, concerned that it would detract from the topic I was lifting up at the time. He has given me permission to share his comments about "the pattern of early Friends" around the use of corporate discernment. 

What I appreciate about Marshall's remarks, once again, is the interweaving he provides between Quakerism's historical figures, our faith tradition's spiritual discipline, and Biblical references that relate to and undergird our practice. --Liz 

P.S. Emphasis in the text below is Marshall's. At times I have added links and an occasional paragraph break or blockquote.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Hi, Liz!

This is in response to your blog posting of October 11...

I cannot agree with Arthur Larrabee’s take on why Friends engage in corporate discernment. We don’t do it because it nurtures community. We do it, alas, simply because we are following the pattern of early Friends. And then some of us come up with rationalizations for why Friends follow that pattern, as Art Larrabee has done. But such rationalizations are simply guesses, no more.

So why did early Friends actually engage in corporate discernment? They didn’t do it to build community. They already had community, without seeking it, amongst themselves. Their reasons for engaging in corporate discernment were quite different.

Early Friends understood that God does not just address and teach individuals as individuals: God also addresses and teaches His people as a people. "Christ has come to teach his people himself," as George Fox put it. “God has given greater judgment to his church than the individual members of it,” wrote William Penn.

The Bible, indeed, gives illustrations of God instructing a group as a group, as for instance the story of Susanna (Daniel 13, which is omitted from Protestant Bibles), and also the story of the apostolic council at Jerusalem (Acts 15:1-29). The latter story provided the specific model that Friends followed in structuring their meetings for business. (Cf. Robert Barclay, The Anarchy of the Ranters, §VI.)

Early Friends actually had a fairly clear sense of the reasons why God might prefer to instruct His people as a people, rather than as individuals. It was clear that His people had to make policy decisions somehow, and it was quite clear to them that God did not want any single human being making these decisions for them all, in the fashion of the Pope or the King, because it was evident that such an autocratic approach led more or less inevitably to the corruption of the Church, and indeed had done so ever since the time of King David. Thus William Dewsbury pointed out, “There should not be a man in Israel to rule one over another, but ... the rule and authority of man should be overturned, & Christ alone rule in the hearts and spirits of his people.” Corporate decision-making removes the rule of any single man, and replaces it with the rule of Christ speaking in the hearts of all.

In one general letter, James Nayler advised Friends to “meet often together and wait upon God for his teaching ... in a cross to your own wills, for therein is the secrets of God revealed.” Corporate discernment provides better discernment in the long run, because it crucifies the wayward will of the individual — whether that individual is a leader or a follower.

“All Friends, submit yourselves one to another, in the fear of God,”

wrote George Fox in one letter, and in another one he elaborated,

“let nothing be done with strife, but in love, to the glory of God, in the name of God, and in his power; so that you may all see and feel Christ among you, ordering you all to his glory with his wisdom, which is pure, peaceable, and easy to be entreated; so that none may be burdened nor oppressed in your meetings.”

Corporate discernment involves practice in submission to one another — mutual servanthood, such as Christ taught at the Last Supper (John 13:3-17) — and practice, too, in dwelling together in the state of reconciliation that is Christ himself. Corporate discernment is transformative in necessary ways.

All this, however, does not mean that early Friends wanted the prophetic leadings of individuals squelched, as so often happened in Friends communities in subsequent generations, including our own. They were constantly repeating the apostle Paul’s adjuration that congregations must “quench not the spirit” where it arises. Fox said it forcefully in a letter of 1656, titled To Friends, about Christ having the best room:

“Quench not the Spirit nor despise prophecy where it moves.... You that stop it yourselves do not quench it in others.... The sighs and groans of the poor, judge not that ... lest you judge prayer. ... Every one exercise this gift and every one speak as the Spirit gives them utterance. And Friends be careful how that you do set your feet among the tender plants that is springing up out of God's earth lest you do hurt them and tread upon them and bruise them or crush them in God's vineyard.”

In another letter Fox went further and advised, “Be one with the witness of God in all, and look at that....” Or in other words, Practice feeling what the witness feels, and seeing through her or his eyes. William Dewsbury wrote in a similar spirit, “Dear people of God, be tender over the least breathings of God's Spirit in one another.” Be tender. In other words, Be sensitive to what is being said.

So what is involved in this practice is something quite different from community-building. It is a particular way of connecting to God, and being changed thereby, that the rest of the world does not know. If we lose that way, and come to treat it as community-building, then we have lost an essential part of what makes us Friends.

All the best,
Marshall

Western Friend's review of Writing Cheerfully

Many thanks to the Friends at Western Friend who have given me permission and even encouragement to post their review of Writing Cheerfully on the Web here. --Liz

Book Review: Writing Cheerfully on the Web: A Quaker Blog Reader

The complete title of the London Yearly Meeting Faith and Practice is Christian faith and practice in the experience of the Society of Friends.

While reading Writing Cheerfully on the Web: A Quaker Blog Reader, I realized I was reading the same book written from a different perspective—a contemporary account of faith and practice in the experience of the Society of Friends.

The Friends represented in this anthology cover a large geographic area, as well as a wide swath of the Quaker spectrum, ranging from Britain Yearly Meeting, North Carolina (Conservative), and Northwest (affiliated with Evangelical Friends International), to Freedom Friends, a Friends church not affiliated with any yearly meetings at all.

One uniting factor is that these writings all first appeared on the internet, on Quaker blogs. One blogger describes the virtual community shared on the web as an example of “electronic intervisitation,” a term once used for Friendly visits to other meetings to see how truth prospered there.

Another uniting characteristic of these Friends' musings is a shared frustration that the witness of today's Society of Friends feels so fragmentary and weak. Despite fluency in the Bible and in Quaker history displayed by individual contributors, they still yearn for a more immediate and more unified experience of the Friends witness today.

Editor Liz Opp provides a nice introduction to the world of blogging, and some suggestions about how blog writings might be understood from a Quaker perspective (as messages shared in open worship, for example), making this collection accessible for non-bloggers. And the personable, conversational tone of the writers offers a timely invitation to reflect on where each of us find ourselves in the faith and practice of the fragmentary, postmodern world of twenty-first century Friends.
__________
Reviewed for Western Friend by Sarah Peterson, a member of Spokane Friends, Spokane, WA (NWYM).

Guest Piece & Survey: Importance of Quaker journals, letters, and blogs

A few days ago, I received an email from a Friend that included a request for me to fill out an online survey--a short survey that had been developed by a Quaker who is doing research to complete a course in an Archives Seminar at the University of Maryland. Maybe some of you readers and fellow bloggers received a similar email.

This new survey* focuses on the impact of Quaker journals and blogs on our spiritual lives.

[*NOTE: After posting this information originally, the survey's creator Mary Crauderueff asked me to have the link to the survey only within the text of her own email, below. That's because of the consent that's sought with more formal research and how online surveys work, apparently. As a result, I've removed the links to the survey in this preface. Feel free to skip ahead...]

The survey raised a few questions for me and I contacted the survey's creator, Mary Crauderueff. After a brief back-and-forth, she agreed to have me post her original email here, along with a few other comments about the project and survey.

Anyone who has not yet taken the survey may do so before April 6, 2009.

You don't have to have a blog, and you don't have to be Quaker. But if you read Quaker blogs, please consider taking it.

To be clear: this is a different survey with a very different purpose from the one that I had posted a few weeks ago. (My own post and survey is here.)

Mary writes: "If anyone has questions, comments, or want to talk with me more about the subject [of Quaker journals, letters, and blogs], they should feel free to do so."

She can be reached at [mcrauder AT umd DOT edu].

Blessings,
Liz

Excerpt from Mary Crauderueff's email to me in response to my questions

The survey was very tailored to my Archives Seminar project, which is about the way Quaker journals have been used over time as spiritual nurture, and how blogs are a continuation of this, and therefore should be preserved. This is going along with a trend in the greater archival world to save electronic, and especially internet-based, materials.

The deadline is April 6th, however I have a limit of surveys I can collect, and so I would encourage readers to participate sooner rather than later.

Text from Mary's original email

From: Mary Crauderueff
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:03 PM
Subject: Quaker Blog Survey! - Please forward.

Dear Friends,

Please excuse any cross-listings.

I am conducting research for the final paper I am writing in my Archives Seminar class this semester at the iSchool at the University of Maryland, College Park. The paper is about the importance of Quaker journals, letters, and blogs to the spiritual guidance and nurture of Quakers both historically and today.

I am hoping to get input from Quakers of all ages regarding their interest and involvement of Quaker journals and blogs during the course of their spiritual journey with Quakerism. I have complied a set of questions that I am hoping you will be able to fill out for me. [Keep reading to make your way to the link. --Liz]

I will do my best to keep your personal information confidential. If I write a report or article about this research project, your identity will be protected to the maximum extent possible. I will be keeping the results in a password-protected account, and if they are loaded onto a computer, the computer account will also be password protected. Any identifying information collected will be kept separately from the responses.

There are no known risks associated with participating in this research project. This research is not designed to help you personally.

Your participation in this research is completely voluntary. You may choose not to take part at all. If you decide to participate in this research, you may stop participating at any time. If you decide not to participate in this study or if you stop participating at any time, you will not be penalized or lose any benefits to which you otherwise qualify.

This research is being conducted by Mary Crauderueff, College of Information Studies (Maryland's i-School) at the University of Maryland, College Park. If you have any questions about the research study itself, please contact Jean Dryden at:

4121J Hornbake Bldg, South Wing
University of Maryland
College Park, MD 20742
301-405-3777

If you have questions about your rights as a research subject or wish to report a research-related injury, please contact:

Institutional Review Board Office
University of Maryland
College Park, Maryland 20742
(e-mail) irb AT deans DOT umd DOT edu
(telephone) 301-405-0678

This research has been reviewed according to the University of Maryland, College Park IRB procedures for research involving human subjects.

By clicking on the link to the survey on SurveyMonkey.com [see below], you indicate that: you are at least 18 years of age; the research has been explained to you; your questions have been fully answered; and you freely and voluntarily choose to participate in this research project.

[And here it is...]

Please respond via this survey by Monday, April 6th. [Click here to go the survey! Or copy and paste the URL into your browser]:

http://tinyurl.com/d45lyu
(http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=UyCjz8ars9a5g77hght6jA_3d_3d)

Also, please forward this to all the Quakers you know - I would like to get as much participation as I can!

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thanks in advance!

in Light,

Mary Crauderueff
mcrauder AT umd DOT edu
Special Collections Graduate Assistant
Michelle Smith Performing Arts Library
University of Maryland College Park

Guest Piece: Marshall on the historical nature of Quaker journals

What follows below is a couple of informative comments that Marshall Massey left on my previous post.

At one point in our exchange of comments, I posed to Marshall, "How can we know what it was that Woolman wanted to convey [in his journal] with that story?"--that story being the one where Woolman is worshiping with a group of Native Americans, offers some vocal ministry, and is met with with the words of Native American worshiper among them: "I love to feel where the words come from..."

In his thoughtful replies, Marshall describes the historical nature, purpose, and structure of the journals of early Friends and of journal writers long before--and since--that era. For any of us who might be keeping a journal, whether for personal reasons, for purposes of accountability, or out of a sense of God's leading, this post might be of interest.

I present this guest piece, then, with Marshall's permission. I have set it up as a sort of dialogue between him and me, since his comments emerge in response to my own questions. The hope is that by viewing my original questions, readers will understand the context out of which Marshall answers.

I have added line breaks and blockquotes in some places as well. Lastly, wherever convenient and available, I've included links to items that Marshall references.

Blessings,
Liz

LIZ: How can we know what it was that Woolman wanted to convey with that story--or did he explicitly say, This is why I'm writing this...?

MARSHALL: How we can know, dear Liz, is because this was the traditional purpose of Quaker journals, for a hundred years before Woolman and a hundred years after him: to record the evidence of divine grace working through the writer.

It was also the purpose of Calvinists' journals, from long before Quakerism got started through the time of Jonathan Edwards and beyond. The Quaker journal-writing tradition was, in fact, an adaptation of the Calvinist journal-writing tradition.

Woolman was working within a well-established, well-defined Quaker spiritual discipline. There is no evidence that he rejected Quaker discipline of any sort.

LIZ: As usual, I appreciate how you are able to put things into a larger historical and Quaker context. My guess is, though, that if I asked five other Quaker historians about why Quaker ministers kept journals, I might get another five or six answers!

MARSHALL: Hi again, Liz!

I would certainly encourage you to ask other Quaker historians about the reason, if you have the time.

Failing that, there is actually a wealth of scholarly opinion about the topic available in book form. Daniel B. Shea's Spiritual Autobiography in Early America (University of Wisconsin Press, 1968, 1988) might be a good place to start, since Woolman's Journal is one of the ones he examines.

Shea, who is regarded as a leading figure in this field, writes,

"The explicit arguments of early spiritual narratives were highly conventional. ... The spiritual autobiographer is primarily concerned with the question of grace: whether or not the individual has been accepted into divine life, an acceptance signified by psychological and moral changes which the autobiographer comes to discern in his past experience. ... Quaker journalists dealt less with the subtleties of the conversion process than with the witnessing life wrought by conversion. ... Each of these selections [reviewed in Shea's book] obeys conventions established for the journal in seventeenth-century England, in content and vocabulary, and in the vindication of Quaker habits and beliefs. ....Outbursts of originality were incidental, brief, and contained within the larger structure of the journal, which was already well established by 1700. Conformity to this structure resulted from a group mentality, but also of course from the common experiences of traveling Friends." (Pp. xxv-xxvii, 9-10, 39-40.)

If your quarrel is with my statement that "the traditional purpose of Quaker journals ... [was] to record the evidence of divine grace working through the writer," you might also want to give some consideration to the opening words of Woolman's Journal: "I have often felt a motion of Love to leave some hints of my experience of the Goodness of God...."

As Shea points out, these words are not very different from the opening words of the memoirs of Jane Reynolds and Elizabeth Collins; nor, I might add, from those of the memoirs of Elizabeth Ashbridge, Thomas Chalkley, Ruth Follows, John Griffith, Alice Hayes, Jane Hoskens, Henry Hull, Joseph Oxley, Jane Pearson, Joseph Pike, Elizabeth Stirredge, and many other Quaker journal-keepers.

The standard formula was something along the lines of

"[I have had it on my mind/I have felt drawings/It hath been in my heart] for many years to [write an account/leave some hints/leave a short testimony] of the [providence/precious visitations] and [tender/gracious/merciful dealings] of the [Almighty/Lord/All-Wise] with me from my youth up."

Often the writer adds this is "for the benefit of my children" or "for those who come after" or something similar.

A few writers elaborate the basic idea more fully, such as Thomas Shillitoe, who began, "Believing it required of me in my early life, to keep a record of the merciful dealings of the Lord with me, and the remarkable manner in which he, in his tender compassion, has followed me by his reproofs of instruction, accompanied by such offers of help, as when faithfully co-operated with, never have failed to be all-sufficient for every work and service He has been pleased to call me to perform...."

Or Daniel Wheeler, who opened by saying, "Having frequently derived much valuable instruction, from the perusal of the narratives of those who have long since exchanged an earthly for an heavenly inheritance, the thought has at times occurred to me, that a short memoir of my own life, — however evil 'the days of the years of my pilgrimage' have been; might, under the divine blessing, be made in like manner useful to others."

In every case, the words amount to the writer's own ideas of the journal's purpose, which is a fusion of (1) wanting to note how she has been a beneficiary of grace, (2) wanting to show that she has been blessed to be an instrument through which grace came to others, and (3) wanting the journal itself to serve as such an instrument. The three motives do not seem to me to be separable; they are, in fact, three aspects of a single motive driving the work.

Perhaps the other historians you have in mind will be able to offer the other understandings to which you refer. If so, I'll be most interested to read them!

With all good wishes —
Marshall

What story can Quakers tell at Christmas time?

I was going through old papers the other day, hoping to trim down the items in my file cabinet. One of the things I came across was a correspondence of sorts between a Friend in the meeting and an ad hoc committee, focused on looking at how the meeting "does" Christmas and Easter. I was part of the committee and it appears that the Friend was serving as clerk of the First Day School Committee at the time.

("The pageant" she refers to was a holiday program put on by the children on a First Day close to the Christmas holiday.)

As I was reading, I realized that not much seems to have changed since 2002: the concerns that the Friend raised more than five years ago in response to the committee's work are still relevant today.

On the other hand, looking at my own response from back then, I can see how much I myself have changed. I've clearly shifted from being a multi-faith Liberal Quaker to a Conservative-leaning Friend over the years.

Now that the season called Christmas is upon us, I thought I'd post the original letter and the response I crafted back then. Both are shared with the permission of the individual Friend who first wrote the committee.

--Liz

Dear Committee on Christian Holidays,

I have appreciated receiving your minutes and appreciate the time you have each taken to address the myriad of interrelated questions that arise as you define and set about your task. I feel so led to add my own comments to the discussion, although it is unlikely I will be able to join you on Wednesday. These are my personal thoughts and are not intended to claim to represent First Day School committee.

I want to address the question through the eyes of a parent of young children--a perspective directly related to my absence in person from your meetings. I wish to have a response to my sons when they ask me, "What is Christmas? What is Easter?" The secular culture tells them, "commercialism." Their grandparents show them with toys and sugar. Does their faith community have a response?

I want to be careful not to get lost into how big or small Christmas is relative to other events in our spiritual lives. When Christmas arrives, Christmas exists. The fact that neither I nor my faith community have a Christocentric faith does not erase the existence of Christmas as a cultural happening. I have the choice to pooh-pooh Christmas or find a way to claim it. As someone brought up in a Christian faith and claiming as an adult Quakerism, a faith with roots in Christianity, I find it my path to find a story for Christmas, a meaningful story that I want to tell.

My four year old is entranced with story. One of the refrains of his life is "Tell me a story." I assume he is moderately typical in this regard; that requesting stories is how children developmentally find ways to learn and describe their world. He is wildly picky about his stories. He nixes fairy tales--too much bad stuff happens (Why was Goldilocks so mean?.). Fables don't work for him. They are built around mistakes. At two he cried when the characters painfully learn their lessons. He loves the classic moral story: where people are truly good to each other. When we happen upon one, we tell it 50, 60, 70 times. I receive the opportunity to craft and shape it until it truly works.

I have had a tendency to roll my eyes when he asks me for another story. I'm not a natural story teller. I don't have a good repertoire. It taxes both my time and my imagination. My better self, however, has realized that the time is limited when he will ask to listen to what I have to say. This is my opportunity to build for him a set of characters, morals and stories that form a foundation for how he sees and interprets the world. I find myself wildly relieved when I discover a story that truly works. Good King Wenceslas was a great success. So was the Christmas story. It was not so much me that chose them as the stories to be crafted in their telling as that my son did. I assume that something in them speaks to him.

This brings me to the pageant. I see it not so much as a celebration, as a telling of a story. I see it not as what it does or does not represent in my faith as an adult, but as what participation in it or a similar event can mean to a child. For my child it was his first awareness of a community of children older than him and as a foreshadowing of a community he gets to grow into. It was an opportunity to see a story belong to a community, not just to a family. It was a way to give Christmas a story that was bigger and better than, "your grandmas and grandpas like to buy you a lot of toys." Next year he wants to be a shepherd. I interpret that as that he's claiming the story, the event and most importantly the community. He sees a role for himself. OK, we may not really need shepherds here--but he was only three. It's a sense of connection to the larger meeting. To me the pageant was my faith community helping me recreate and reclaim a holiday, that I see trivialized, manipulated and misquoted, but not abandoned by the secular culture.

If the Meeting community does not tell this story corporately next year my son will ask me why. I am fine with relaying the answer to him, but I want it to be an answer I can proudly tell him. I am happy to tell him we're telling a story in a different way. I am happy to tell him we chose to tell a different story. I may even be fine with telling him that some people don't like that story, but when he asks me why I'll need an answer. I could tell him that they don't like the cultural baggage that hangs around the story and that I don't either, but he'll ask me why again. To him the story hasn't yet acquired cultural baggage. It's about a baby who grew up to make a difference in the world. That's a transferable message. Can we give that story some good baggage?

Other stories may convey love, compassion or empowerment in a more meaningful way. Other stories may be more important. Other stories have a lot less cultural baggage attached. But when the question comes up, "Why tell the story?", I'd like to add the question, "Why not tell the story?" Children are hungry for stories. Let's find more not less stories to tell each in all their glory.

For a lot of children, the pageant worked. Does this offend us? Does this scare us? Do we not want them to know the Christmas story? Is it that we want them to put the story in its proper perspective or is it really that we don't want them to know or claim it at all. As we struggle with the question how do we acknowledge Christian holidays in our Quaker community, I want to be careful to not throw out the baby with the bathwater. The baby part I mean somewhat literally; let's not overlook the perspectives of the babes as we sort out our own philosophic interpretations of some of the stories that intrigue them. Let's concentrate our efforts on finding them more stories that speak to them; that they can claim as individuals and as a community.

Thank you for your time and attention. Once again I appreciate the time and tenderness that each of you are taking to help our community define and deepen itself through discussion about how to identify, acknowledge, tell and celebrate the values that bring us together as a community.

Holding your discussion in the light,

Annika Fjelstad

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Dear Fellow Members on the ad hoc Committee on Christian Holidays,

I am touched by Annika's letter, and I am opened by it as well. I sense some wonderful possibilities emerging from her questions.

I find we as a committee often labor over a series of questions: What is to be our response when we or our young children are asked, "Why don't we celebrate Christmas?” and “Why are we different from everybody else?"

Many times, our work as a committee challenges us to consider related questions and concerns: What do we as Quakers believe, and how do we bring our Quaker beliefs forward in response to the pressures and activities of the larger society, especially around popular [secularized] holidays?

I have been amazed at how readily we, as a committee, acknowledge how little we truly know about BEING Quaker, yet there is more to Quakerism than worship into which we can immerse ourselves in order to understand how to answer these rich questions.

Like Annika, I too wish to find a meaningful story that can be told to young Friends, and reinforced among grown Friends as well, especially at the time of year when children want to feel like they belong, or at least understand why they might not. As a convinced Friend who was raised in a Jewish household, I wish for young Friends to have a strong sense of "where we hang our hat” throughout the year, without discounting or diminishing Christian stories, Jewish stories, Islamic stories, Hindu stories, and the like.

As a result of Annika's letter, I have begun living with the question, What might a meaningful Quaker story look like? What Quaker principles might it teach? Like children, I hunger for stories that help me understand how we are the way we are, as Quakers.

Annika's letter prompts me to go deeper into my question about a Quaker story: Who would be its characters? Would it acknowledge its Christian heritage, let alone the stories of other religions and peoples? Does Quakerism even HAVE meaningful stories that still speak to us as Friends today? My heart tells me this is so. And so I must begin to look with new eyes and listen with new ears in order to know these stories in a deep way.

I affirm that there is something in our Quaker history that speaks to us yet today, but we have become disconnected from these stories and therefore distanced from their power. Even though I recognize the names George Fox, John Woolman, William Penn, Margaret Fell, Mary Dyer, and Rufus Jones, I could tell you very little about the stories behind their significance.

Surely a religious society such as ours could not have persevered without its own share of goodness, and without stories that reflect that goodness.

Our task as a Meeting, as I see it, is to reach for these stories, teach these stories, and re-create them in a way that carries meaning for seasoned Friends, new attenders, and young Friends so we can know the place of Christmas and other secular holidays within the broader scope of our Quakerism and not, as we have been, continue to fit Quakerism in its small, peculiar place among the larger world.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I love the truth of Annika's perception, that the story that [such] pageants have told is about a baby who grew up to make a difference in the world.

But so am I, a baby who is growing up to make a difference in the world.

So is the most devout Muslim, and the most dedicated Hasidic Jew. Why hold up one above all others? Why hold up one day above the rest?

I have never wished for our pageants and celebrations to point to a "special" person. Rather, I would want to point to our Quakerism, our faith and our practice, saying, "Of course Jesus became a great teacher. He lived up to his Light and was granted more of it. Gandhi, while not Christian, made a difference too. He too lived up to his Light and was granted more of it. And [the late] Elizabeth Watson, just up the street, she too is a great teacher, and she worships as we worship. And Momma, or those two daddies, or that little girl who is sitting on her father’s knee, they too are able to be great teachers and make a difference in the world. You are able to grow up and make a difference in the world."

I would want what we share with our community to be based in Quaker history, Quaker faith, and Quaker practice, to shine the light onto what is possible today because of what happened yesterday, that we are each capable of embodying the Divine Spirit, by seeking the Light and opening ourselves to the Inward Teacher.

Again and again, Annika asks good, important questions. She asks, Does it scare me that for a lot of children, the pageant worked? Yes, it does.

I am scared that young Friends will see it as a story, not as a way of life. I am scared that young Friends will think Quakers are "just the same" and have the same stories as so many other Christians, when in fact how we come to know the Truth is quite different.

Annika asks, Do we not want our children to know the Christmas story? Well, I want our children to know the Christmas story, the Hanukkah story, the Ramadan story, the Kwaanza story--to know these stories and also to know our own, the Quaker story, even more thoroughly.

Our religious society is Quaker, not Lutheran or Jewish or Hindu or even generically social. At times I wonder if we share the Christmas story and other such holidays, such as Passover, because it is easy, popular, and familiar; because it is accessible in texts and movies; because for many of us it is part of our individual personal experience of growing up; because it gives us a chance to come together socially without having to unpack our religious baggage.

I would say to Friends who wish to focus on the story of Jesus that this is not enough. I want the backdrop of our story-sharing to be a backdrop of our Quaker faith, with the other stories being slides projected onto it, like showing a movie on the wall of the Meetinghouse. And in-between each slide we still get to see the wall onto which the other images are shown. We turn the projector off, but the wall remains as part of the structure within which we gather, we learn, we worship.

I am grateful for the experience, questions, and thoughts that Annika brings forward in her letter. It is only by wrestling together with these concerns that we can know them completely and then discern how to live with them into the future, as a faith community and as a religious society.

Blessings,
Liz

It Happened One Night - A virtual interview with Brent Bill

It happened one night last week: I was finishing up a phone call with Robin M when she off-handedly asked me if I was doing the blog contest with Brent Bill. I had been so out of the blog loop for the weeks leading up to that point, I had no idea what she was talking about.

Robin explained to me that the Quaker author and fellow blogger was having a contest of sorts, to help promote his book, Sacred Compass: The Way of Spiritual Discernment. Robin pointed me to Brent's blog post that described the contest's parameters, which I took a peek at.

Then I briefly considered going to bed.

The thing is, the contest was scheduled to end that day. And I had hung up the phone with Robin at 11:10 pm.

Central time.

Maybe I still had a chance to squeak in under the wire... if midnight was relative in Brent's eyes.

What time did I say I wanted to get up in the morning...?! I had asked myself. Ah, well.

At 11:51 pm, Central Daylight Time, I emailed my five best, hurried-but-thoughtful questions to Brent, along with an explanation for my late entry and the request that even if my questions were received too late for the contest, could he answer them anyway, for my own satisfaction?

Brent was kind enough not only to answer my questions but also to include my literal eleventh-hour entry.

Before sharing the interview, I want to add that I chose not to look at the interviews that had already been posted by a number of fFriends (the list and links are included below).

I also chose not to beat myself over the head for not having read Sacred Compass, let alone any other Brent Bill book.

Instead, I've just made it a point to strike out on my own, having no clue what Brent's writing style is like, what he covers in his book, or what others are interested in asking.

Also, after receiving his answers, I found that I had a follow-up comment and question to one item in particular, so I've included a paraprhase of it--and Brent's additional response--within the flow of the interview itself.

My interview with Brent is below, though I've rearranged the order in which I originally asked the questions.

The Interview

Q. What was your first experience when you began to have an inkling about having an inner compass?

Hmmm, I was pretty young. I'd say 11-12. I wouldn't have called it a compass back then. But I did sense that God had things for me to do -- including what we Evangelical Friends called "full-time Christian service," which usually meant being a pastor or missionary.

Missionary didn't fit me -- so I assumed I'd be a pastor. Lots of things in my life led me toward that -- even when I resisted. But my heart/soul always seemed to be called back to following God and saying, "Okay, what do you want me to do." The same feeling I had as a kid.

Q. What trends have you noticed among contemporary Friends, either towards or away from the understanding of an Inward Teacher? Is there something that seems to move Friends toward a clearer understanding? away from it?

I think it depends on the type of Friends you're thinking about. Certainly, the more fundamentalist types of Friends seem to place so much emphasis on the Bible that they distrust even the idea of an Inner Teacher.

On the other end, some very liberal Friends place so much emphasis on the Inner Teacher that they forget that that Teacher can use external things such as the Bible to help guide us.

Both extremes are dangerous, I think, and we need to find a balance between Christ as Inner Teacher and Outer Teacher.

Q. I was raised in a Jewish household and am only recently beginning to appreciate Scripture and its place in contemporary Quakerism. Recently I've begun wondering if there are certain stories or passages in the Torah, the "first five books," that Quakers draw on for teachings--aside from "Love thy neighbor" and "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your strength..." (Deuteronomy 6:5)

It seems as if Quakers don't draw on the Old Testament in anywhere near the same proportion as we do with the New Testament, yet Jesus was Jewish.

I'm finding I want to hear from Quakers who are better versed than I in Scripture as to what elements of the Old Testament do Friends look to for guidance; and is there a reason we don't hear many Friends quote these [Hebrew] texts? (...or am I just worshiping in the wrong meeting?)

Well, I don't do much, I guess with Torah, but I have done a lot with the Jewish Bible.

I spend a lot of time in the Psalms, which seem to me to be the Quaker Old Testament book in the same way John is our New Testament go-to gospel.

The Psalms reveal the struggle to heed the Inner Teacher -- and to complain, seek, whine, rejoice, etc with the God who goes with and in us. The Psalms, to me, often sound a lot like Fox's Journal -- without all the Christ language.

I think too many of us Quaker-types stay away from the Old Testament because we don't know what to do with all the war and violence parts. Which is a mistake in no small part because Torah describes not just the ancient world but today's world -- and just possibly could provide some clues for how we should behold God in the living of our lives today.

Hmmm, perhaps that's one reason it's still being read by millions even to this day. LOL.

Q. What is one thing you are afraid or hesitant to tell other Quakers about yourself?

Ah, probably that I cuss too much. But then the Quakers who know me really well already know that. The older I get, the more transparent I'm trying to be.

That's much different for me than it was 20 years ago, when I felt like I had to present myself as pretty smart and spiritually deep. Which, of course, didn't work well! Though I've always tried say, "What you see is what you get" when it comes to presenting myself, I used to be pretty careful about how self-revelatory I was. I still am fairly private in some matters, I guess, but have gotten over the having to be perfect sort of ideal.

I'm stuck on this reply in particular, about one thing you are hesitant to tell other Quakers about yourself:

On the one hand, given what seems to be a common intersection between the secular world and contemporary Quakerism, I'm personally not surprised to learn that you "cuss too much."

On the other hand, if the perception you have of how others experience you is that you are... virtuous... morally superior...? (insert superlative adjective here), then it makes sense that there may be some trepidation in "getting off your own pedestal." Transparency, as you put it, helps with that, sure, and cursing can let someone know you have feelings and frustrations like the rest of us.

What I'm curious to know is, do you struggle to be seen and known as a "peer" within your meeting? Do you already experience a sense of "being known in that which is eternal," or is it something you yearn for? What gets in the way of being known deeply, and/or what seems to help?

Well, Liz, I'm not sure what others' experience of me is -- virtuous or not. I have certainly never consciously tried to set myself up in such a way that people might think I am "morally superior." If I have, it's a failing that I regret.

Somebody, recently, told me that they (and some others) considered me a weighty Friend. That thought really unnerved me -- so much so that I even hesitate to mention it. I don't see myself that way and it's not out of any false humility. I am well aware of my inadequacies of faith and practice. I am no paragon of piety and, while I hopefully am growing toward God, I am well aware that I've a long way left on that journey.

One of my greatest joys is that, in our little worship group, I'm considered just one member there, no more and no less important than any other. I hope, as a minister of writing (in particular), that I offer helpful words of spiritual significance, but if I do it's because the Spirit has worked in and through those words and they come through no virtue of my own.

One thing that I think is an obstacle of being known deeply, especially within the context of the faithful community, is the issue of trust. Transparency requires a certain level of trust even at its most basic level.

I think to be known deeply requires a deep level of trust, the sort of trust that is probably developed best in smaller worship-sharing groups than larger faith communities. Thus I feel pretty free to be completely transparent at the Friends in Fellowship group of 10-15 of us who meeting regularly, but less so at the local Friends meeting that I've attended (depending on where I lived at the time) off and on for almost 30 years (gosh am I that old????).

So trust, and enough spiritual maturity to finally realize it's not all about me (or even mostly about me), helps me be known.

Q. Given how much the secular world has crept into our Quaker faith--attending to busy schedules; watching the clock towards the "end" of Meeting for Worship; individualism; etc.--what two or three things of Quakerism might you wish would creep into the secular world?

I do wish that the idea of slowness would infect the secular world.

It seems to me that Quakerism, when done well, is faith going slow -- both literally and figuratively. Time is not of the essence in quite the same way in a Quaker meeting as at the local community church. We take time to slow our thoughts and souls and hearts. As we do so, we become more attentive to the life around us -- spiritual life, communal life, physical life. I think that's a good thing.

We're a sort of spiritual version of the "slow food" movement. Slow soul food -- perhaps that should be our marketing slogan. If we could ever decide to market!

I hope the answers are okay. I tried to keep 'em short since it's a blog. They were really good and fun to wrestle with.

I hope to meet you in person some day.

Friends,
Brent

I trust we'll meet someday, somewhere--most likely at a Convergent Friends dinner or panel discussion! And again, thanks, Brent, for the opportunity to be part of this exchange.

Now off I go to read the other bloggers' posts who have interviewed Brent!

Blessings,
Liz

RELATED POSTS:

I N T E R V I E W S
Wess' interview
Lovin' Life Liz's interview
Shawna's interview
Robin's first post for her interview, posted over several entries
Brent himself has posted an interview with Jo Morgan, since Jo no longer blogs

O T H E R
Brent Bill's own page about his book Sacred Compass
An audio clip from the book's introduction
Podcasts that are read from the book: there is a link at this post of Brent's
Books about corporate discernment

Guest piece: What might an early Friend have said...?

Friend and fellow blogger Marshall Massey sent me a lengthy email in response to my earlier post about a set of queries that were shared at the November 2007 FGC consultation. His replies, offered from the perspective of "an eighteenth-century Quaker minister," struck a chord with me.

Even though I have shared with him my own take on the role of a human community within a Quaker meeting as that role relates to these questions, I find Marshall's words--and those of a hypothetical early Quaker minister--valuable enough that I don't wish to have them buried within a comment or isolated in an email.

Through no fault of his own, Marshall's "relationship" to Blogger seems to have changed, in that Blogger doesn't seem to allow him to participate as he once had. With his permission, then, I am posting his comments in this guest piece. --Liz

Most of the questions on the list you posted seem to me to be grounded in an idea that gospel ministry is something I decide to do in my own way, according to my own program and agenda.

This is different from the traditional Quaker understanding. Traditionally, Friends have regarded gospel ministry as being what happens when the Holy Spirit decides to use someone according to Its plans, not his.

I can imagine a dialogue between the author of the questions you posted, and an eighteenth-century Quaker minister:

AUTHOR: How do we let our Light shine without our fire consuming those we are trying to warm?

EARLY MINISTER: If thee is doing the letting and the trying, thee is not acting in the gospel ministry! Gospel ministry does not begin until thee is able to honestly say to God: God, use me as thou pleasest, I do not resist thee longer.

AUTHOR: Who elders the ministers? Who elders the elders?

EARLY MINISTER: Why does thee think that the eldering has to be done by humans? It is Christ our Lord who does all the eldering, anyway; the humans who seem to thee to do it are just his instruments. Hast thee not felt Christ in thy heart and conscience, reproving thee for the wrongs thee hast done, the ways in which thee has crucified him afresh? We choose our ministers and elders in accordance with the signs we are given that they are listening very carefully to Christ and actually hearing him; and when we, or they, see that they are no longer hearing him daily, they step down from their positions, or are asked to step down. This is of course not a complete guarantee that things will never go wrong — does not the Psalmist say, put not thy trust in men? — but if thee cannot ground thy trust in Christ, what can thee ground thy trust in?

AUTHOR: How do we discern the ministry we are called to? How do we discern if we are still called? How do we discern if we are called to travel in the ministry... or if we are to stay in our meeting?

EARLY MINISTER: When thee experiences the sense of being drawn or led to minister at a particular place and time (we Friends do not speak of "callings to the ministry", since callings are understood to be for one's whole life, and we do not believe that this is the way the Holy Spirit operates) — that sense of being drawn or led, is itself the discernment. Why should there be anything more?

AUTHOR: If we are called to travel, how do we discern a companion?

EARLY MINISTER: If God wants thee to have a companion, God will raise up a companion for thee. The companion will know she is called to be thy companion because she will feel the leading in her heart and conscience, just as thee feels thy leading in thine own.

Just speaking personally, Liz, it seems to me that the answers to all these questions become fairly obvious, once we understand that it is God who is in charge and not ourselves!

All the best,
Marshall

Guest Piece: Making our message accessible

Fellow blogger Wess Daniels of Gathering in Light responds to the questions raised at the end of the previous post with queries of his own.

Though Wess interpreted the original questions as defensive, in an online exchange with him I explained that I knew the hearts of each Friend who had attended the adult education program; and that I was moved by their curiosity and genuine amazement for how some Friends are able to dedicate the time to read and participate thoughtfully in the online conversation.

This guest piece is a reprint of Wess' original comment, and is posted here with his permission. The questions to which Wess refers start this post for easier reference. -Liz

---

Does the internet break down or undermine face-to-face interaction and genuine person-to-person contact?

If "all of us" are always blogging (or emailing or...), who's doing any listening?

What do we give up in our life in order to have time to use the internet for email, blogging, and so on?

What made us start to blog? Why do we continue blogging?

Is the quickness of the internet and the convenience of post-comment-respond a good thing?

Are traditional Quaker journals and magazines (e.g. Friends Journal) weakening in their content as a result of blogs?

I'm surprised how defensive the majority of those questions are - they all seem to come from a position of trying to protect something, a holding back, as opposed to a digging in, on the offense kind of approach.

I hope that Quakers can begin to lead the pack again in various ways of communicating, as we once did with the first Publishers of Truth, as well as other ways of engaging our world. We can't afford to be on the defensive for much longer, I am afraid that in many ways the world has already passed us by.

This isn't to say we adopt every new thing whole-heartedly and without reflection - but queries of discipline and discernment are different than self-preservation and defense. Maybe I've read the questions wrong, but I feel as though our questions reflect how we feel about our witness to the world and seems to assume God couldn't be in any of this.

Why not ask where is God working in this? What do these rising communities and online culture teach us about the Spirit of God? Or how is Gospel Order displayed within these new spheres? What does it look like, and mean, for one to be a Quaker blogger? Are there any virtues and characteristics that make our witness in this way to the world Christ-like? Or are we just like everybody else? And yes, what ways are these technologies oppressive and go against God's work in the world?

I am also curious as to how many people actually read our academic Journals? I personally read that stuff as much as possible, my world is surrounded by those things, and I certainly hope (even though I am a blogger) that a blog doesn't replace the work of the academy anytime soon!

But on the other hand, don't blogs make the message free for all, accessible to all, and again stress the importance of the "laity," to use a hierarchical term? I think lay-theology, if we dare call it that, is essential to the Quaker tradition.

Another question would be in what ways have our magazines, and academic periodicals put up false walls between us by only communicating the messages that suite the institutions which preside over those publications? Are there any convergent publications? (I do believe there are a couple) But, how much more have we discovered by hearing the voices and stories of those who are outside the walls of our various Quaker institutions by the free access to blogs which anyone, from any branch can write and read easily?

I hope we continue to forge ahead, and press into our calling to be a light to the world by engaging it in radical ways.

For me, I blog to share my own story and write theology that subverts the powers of both the world and the church in the Spirit and love of Christ.